Monday, October 23, 2006

Why Iraq Could be Like Vietnam

Read on:
From Investors Business Daily on Friday:

Iraq War: President Bush's acknowledgment that some "could be right" in comparing Iraq to Vietnam cheered the anti-war left. But he didn't mean it the way they think, and he won't give them the results they want.

It's a mantra of the anti-war left that Iraq is like Vietnam in the quagmire sense, a waste of vast amounts of treasure and blood in a futile attempt to impose our will on a population rising up to resist us. It's also part of the mantra that 1968's Tet offensive was an American and South Vietnamese defeat.

So when the president responded to a question by former Clintonista George Stephanopoulos by saying New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman "could be right" in his assessment that the current escalation of violence in Iraq was akin to the Tet offensive in Vietnam, leftist hearts everywhere fluttered in joy and the misquoting began in earnest.

What Bush actually said, for those who really paid attention, was that, as in 1968, there's "certainly a stepped-up level of violence, and we're heading into an election." He added that the jihadists in Iraq, like the North Vietnamese, "believe that if they can create enough chaos, the American people will grow sick and tired of the Iraqi effort and force the government to withdraw."

Tet was a military disaster for the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese. Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap failed in his plan to seize and hold 13 of 16 provincial capitals and trigger a popular uprising. The communist forces lost upward of 50,000 killed and as many wounded. After Tet, the Viet Cong were effectively finished as a fighting force, with the NVA taking over.

But when Walter Cronkite was on the air proclaiming Tet a communist victory in the first televised war, the facts on the ground got lost. We may be thankful that CBS News didn't have cameras in the Ardennes in 1944 while asking Eisenhower why he didn't plan for the onslaught and what his exit strategy was.

In a postwar interview, Bui Tin, who served on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army and who received South Vietnam's surrender in 1975, said it was the anti-war movement, fanned by gloomy media reports, that was "essential to our strategy."

Highly covered visits by Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark, et al. "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses." Today we have Cindy Sheehan and John Murtha. America lost the war, Bui Tin observed, "because of its democracy. Through dissent and protest, it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win."

What Bush meant when he conceded Friedman "could be right" in comparing the current escalation in violence to Tet is that the jihadists in Iraq hope to play our media like a fiddle, bombarding us with graphic images of car bombs killing innocent civilians until the last helicopter leaves the roof of our embassy in Baghdad.

This election is like the election of 1974. Thirty-odd years ago, the Democratic "Watergate babies" were elected, and one of their first actions was to vote to deny South Vietnam $800 million in military aid, including ammunition and spare parts. Five weeks after that vote, North Vietnam began planning an armored invasion of the South, knowing we had grown war-weary and would not help.

In 1975, two years after the armistice we signed with North Vietnam, Saigon fell to an army of 570,000 North Vietnamese regular soldiers and 900 Soviet tanks, well-supplied and armed by their Soviet and Chinese benefactors — after a Democratic Congress, in a fit of post-Watergate pique, cut off aid.

Georges Clemenceau once observed that war is a series of catastrophes that lead to victory. But only if the victor's will and resolve remain unshaken. As in Vietnam, the decision of who wins in Iraq may not be determined on the battlefield but at the polls Nov. 7.

18 comments:

iknowhowtospell said...

"We're on the verge of chaos, and the current plan is not working," Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record), R-S.C., said in an Associated Press interview. U.S. and Iraqi officials should be held accountable for the lack of progress, said Graham, a Republican who is a frequent critic of the administration's policies.

link to story here

And what's this thing W is saying now about how "stay the course" wasn't the core of his plan?

Lew Waters said...

iknow, can't you find a real Republican to quote? Graham is a well known RINO.

I have been telling all for weeks that "stay the course" simply means complete the mission. Military missions nearly always involve changing tactics to fit the enemies response.

As for the Viet Nam comparison, I see the lamestream media performing in the same underhanded way they did to us back then. Inaccurate reporting to further their own leftist agenda.

Ask some of the Vietnamese in our communities how well our abandonment of them went after we left and refused to help them, as we agreed to in the Paris peace accords. That's is what is being championed again by the Democrats.

iknowhowtospell said...

So, if I'm to understand correctly -- and I'm not necessarily aiming this observation entirely at you specifically, Lew, because despite the fact that we disagree, you actually put thought into what you write, and I appreciate that -- it's pretty much established by many who read and comment on this blog that all Democrats and liberals are essentially Barbara Streisand loving communists who are drones for whatever Ted Kennedy says, but a Republican who says something contrary to the party line ... well, he doesn't really count.

I gotta figure out these rules. Who should I listen to?

Maybe Rush Limbaugh and his brave stand against Michael J. Fox?

Or Sean Hannity urging Democrats not to vote because not matter who they vote for, George Bush will still be President?

Decisions, decisions.

Lew Waters said...

Not a rule, iknow, an observation. Graham and a few others are what we refer to as RINOs because, although they have the R beside their name, they don't necessarily follow conservative thought. Think of it as how Democrats like Lieberman and Zell Miller are looked upon by the rest.

If I quoted either of them, I doubt you would accept them as following the liberal train of thought.

For some insight on Iraq vs Viet Nam, though, I just put up a post on my blog addressing the comparison: Iraq, Viet Nam Again?

Mongo7 said...

Well known RINO huh? Lindsey Graham came to Washington as a Newt Gingrich acolyte, served as a House manager of President Bill Clinton's impeachment trial, and is pro-life, pro-gun, and pro-tax cut. According to the standard-bearing American Conservative Union, Graham has voted for the conservative position 91 percent of the time since coming to Congress in 1995, identical to the rating with which Strom Thurmond retired. Lew, do you care to offer substantive demonstration of his not being conservative.

RightieDave said...

91% is not good enough if you oppose the fiasco in Iraq.

Lew Waters said...

Mongo, how he went there and how he is now are two different things.

If you want substantiation, try listening to conservative talk radio. But be careful, your eyes might get opened ;)

Lew Waters said...

LeftieDave, ask Lieberman.

westsidedavid said...

George Bush has decided that "Stay the course" is not the best rhetorical way to describe his position. The military is admitting that its attempts to subdue the insurgency in Baghdad are not meeting with success. The administration is trying to get the Iraqis to shoulder a greater burden, to little avail. And this month 91 Americans and God only knows how many Iraqis lost their lives to this war.

I do think it is time that we asked ourselves just what we are doing, because there do seem to be a good many signs that it is not working.

Mongo7 said...

Just as I thought Lew, no substance

Lew Waters said...

The pitiful thing is how the lefties politicize another war to grab power and insitute theor Socialist agenda.

Wars are not won by catchy phrases, but catchy phrases are useful in abandoning a struggling ally in their deepest hour of need, again.

As I've repeatedly said, Stay the Course always meant to finish the mission. Lefties misrepresent it as never changing tactics.

Incidentally, The administration is trying to get the Iraqis to shoulder a greater burden, to little avail is just more leftist drivel designed to bring about the abandonment of a new ally even faster. You really should read something besides the defeatocrats lamestream media.

Mongo, if you were truly interested, you would listen in to conservative talk radio. Obviously, you are stuck in your own narrow mindedness and hardly worth any time. But, since you don't have the ability to do for yourself, try these:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1724554/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1708068/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1690906/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1702489/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1697044/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1701265/posts

You do know how to copy and paste, don't you?

Mongo7 said...

Lew, you called Sen. Graham a RINO and so far have been unable give any specific facts to support that allegation, while I have given specific facts which contradict it. Referring one to right wing radio for facts is an insult as is reference to numerous websites. You should be able to make the argument yourself as I have done. Don't call someone a RINO unless you can back it up.

Lew Waters said...

Mongo, I'm shocked to see you sticking up for a Republican (even if a RINO) so strongly.

I gave you links, told you were to go .... errr, to find information and you sit back and whine.

Don't bother me if you are too lazy to seek information handed to you on a platter.

Besides, if you had checked out the urls, you might have discovered the little "set-up" I placed in it. As I figured, you wouldn't look at any, just whine and bray.

Incidentally, I don't call you daddy, you don't tell me what to do.

Mongo7 said...

Thank you Lew, again no substance.

Victoria Taft said...

Mongo, How's this for an example: Gang of 14?
I understand you wouldn't consider that a slap in the face to the GOP but those of us on the more conservative side sure do.

Lew Waters said...

You are right, Mongo. No substance. Especially between your ears.

Fizziwigg said...

At least Mongo made a supported argument which Lew did not.

westsidedavid said...

Ms Taft:
As far as the fourteen senators who worked out a system of compromise on judicial nominations being a slaap in the face of conservative Republicans, I would like to offer this comment: the Constitution of the United States was based on a whole series of compromises.

Supposedly, we are all Americans. A judge does not serve the Republican party or the Democratic party, or any other party at all. The judge, and any governmental officer, serves the one constitutency, the people of this country. Given that, as you are wont to claim, we are in a war, does it make sense to declare war on our own people, or wouldn't it be smarter to find ways to work together and concentrate on controlling our common enemies?